Blogging back and forth with Al has inspired me to write a post on my experience with prong collars. Let me first put a disclaimer here that I am NOT a certified dog trainer or behaviorist. Through my experiences with rescue and my own dogs I have done research and made the decision to use a prong collar on one of my dogs – not both.
Many people feel very strongly about prong collars in one direction or the other – for or against. And given what I have read, there is not a right or a wrong answer – bottom line is making the decision to use a prong collar should neither be taken lightly nor without research and needs to be carefully evaluated in the context of your dog. In my first training class with Bella I was encouraged to use a Gentle Leader Easy Walk harness (not the one that goes on the head). And for awhile it worked ok. The premise behind the harness is the leash attaches to it in the front so it turns the dog’s attention back on the owner, and the harness gives additional leverage in controlling the dog. After awhile her leash and dog aggression become really hard to control on walks. She’s obstinate and weighs 90 pounds so I would walk her at night, or in the dead of winter when I knew no one would be out. As an aside, I have Patricia McConnell’s book on leash aggression (I have all of Patricia’s books actually…she is amazing and if you find yourself befuddled by your canines, get her books), and Bella and I continue to work on desensitizing and redirecting her from the things that stimulate the leash aggression.
I also avoid retractable leashes – those are disasters waiting to happen. I like and use Earth Dog leashes and collars because they are made of hemp so they are softer on my hands. Bella has the Jewel pattern and Jojo has the Demeter pattern.
Why and how I chose to use a prong collar with Bella:
1. Gentle Leader harness had ceased to work.
2. She weighs 90 pounds and it’s my responsibility to keep her under control when we are out on walks for her safety, my safety and the safety of the humans and dogs out walking. She is a Great Pyrenees so she is a runner (will take off for the hills if given the chance) so I need to keep her safe.
3. Great Pyrenees have lots of fur and a very high pain tolerance so to use a non-prong, choke collar would be inhumane – our rescue knows of multiple pyrs who have either choked themselves and died or sustained significant damage to the neck and vocal cords because their pain tolerance was so high they did not realize what they were doing when on a regular choke collar. Don’t use choke collars especially if you have big, exuberent and pain tolerant dogs!
4. Bella’s aggression towards other dogs has not been exacerbated by the prong collar – this can be a result of a prong collar and should be watched carefully.
5. Bella is an alpha female. This means she wants to be in charge of everyone and everything including me sometimes – this is not an uncommon trait in pyrs and for true livestock guardians it is a desired trait because they are more independent and can direct the other dogs who are guarding the herd. Let me be clear on one thing – I DO NOT at all EVER use of any kind of physical dominance tactics with Bella to establish myself as the alpha (I prefer pack leader as the title anyway). I never throw her down, grab her by the neck, yank on her leash, or using physical abuse of any kind. If you want an aggressive dog, that is exactly how to create one. I choose to establish my role as lead of the pack by controlling the resources (food and treats), working with Bella on her training routine on a weekly basis – stepping through the action and reward steps of sitting, heeling, leaving things etc. and rewarding her for desired behavior. Bella also has “jobs” to keep her occupied and feeling like she has a purpose – a common challenge with working dogs and alphas. Her jobs are things like managing the fosters and teaching them good dog manners (if our current foster Benny starts begging during a meal, she comes over and tells him to stop – no kidding), protecting the house when I am gone etc. I am also a huge fan of Patricia McConnell’s books on pack leading and positive reinforcement training. The prong collar helps me manage Bella on walks when it is her tendency to ignore me and police the other dogs out on their walks because she thinks it is her job.
6. Bella was 3 when I adopted her so I have had to work hard on coping with and helping her overcome the “prepackaged” issues she came with – not uncommon in adult rescue dogs. She had bad leash manners from the start, had separation anxiety, leash aggression, trust issues with humans, food aggression and more. She has made huge strides on all fronts but every day is work in progress for both of us.
7. I went to Pet Supplies Plus with Bella and fitted her with a Herm Sprenger prong collar. Don’t buy a cheap one and learn how to use it properly. Before I put it on her, I put it on myself so I could feel what it would be doing to her – that is my golden rule with my dogs – I don’t give them anything or do anything to them I would not do to myself. She has lots and lots of fur so I opted to not use the plastic covers but those are a good idea for dogs who have shorter fur. Our walks have been night and day different and she and I are both less stressed out making the walks more fun for all involved.
More than anything with Bella I view the prong collar as a tool – one that maybe someday when she is older we won’t have to use anymore.
Why I chose not to use a prong collar with Jojo (she has a Gentle Leader harness):
1. Jojo is not an alpha female and has no desire to police or be in charge. Because she has lived with Bella from the time she was 8 weeks old, she has some mild submissive/passive tendencies, tends to be a coward since Bella takes care of defending Jojo (her herd) and prong collars are proven to make submissive behaviors worse.
2. I have had Jojo since she was a pup so I was able to instill good leash walking habits from the start with her – from the start I would reward her with treats when there was slack in the leash when we walk. She was in dog training at 6 months and I started taking her on walks at a young age to help her not develop leash aggression or anxiety and I always reward her for her good behavior.
3. She has attended doggy daycare at the Barkalounge since she was a puppy so she has developed great social skills and loves all animals and people.
4. I also have been able to get Jojo very well acquainted with the “watch me” response which is a great way to distract her if she sees a squirrel or something she wants to chase.
5. Because Jojo is not an alpha, she is more motivated to please me.
6. Bottom line a prong collar is not only not necessary with Jojo but would make her more scared of things and that is not what I want for her.
Just a quick prong collar update – it’s working quite well. Jack doesn’t seem affected negatively by it and he is eating less poop. BUT, I realize that the ONLY way for this to work is to always always always have treats on me if I am using the collar. This way, when people want to approach to pet Jack I shove a treat in their hand and the association goes from hostile to magic. The stress level of going out in public has decreased big time for the both of us.
Alpha status is not a constant. I think Suzanne Clothier explains this in some of her literature. While your dog may display alpha tendencies in some situations, she will not always be an alpha. No dog is. It’s situation dependant. Suzanne’s book, ‘Bones Would Rain From the Sky’ is maginificent and I recommend it highly.
I’m also a fan of Patricia McConnell and Jean Donaldson. I agree no tool is right for all dogs. I tried the g/l with mine but she still lunges at deer – this can cause spinal cord damage – see Suzanne’s article on her werbsite that explains how the g/l does not really work like a horse harness and why it is not ideal for all dogs.
http://www.flyingdogpress.com/
I think it’s really important to take the whole picture into consideration before deciding on any training method or tool. Many people see these issues as black and white – but life is made up of a million shaders of grey!
Beth
Actually she is a dominant beta, not an alpha. She wants to be the boss, the leader, but does not have the skills to do so. These are the dogs that we see in private training, as owners get so frustrated. Thankfully we can help them quickly and efficiently. We may not always be able to change genetic makeup – but we can make life so much easier.There is so much of a misconception between alpha and just dominance – but by showing owners how to make efficient changes quickly, we can help frustrated dog owners.
Gina Hayes
Thanks for the comment Gina. All dogs are different for sure. I’ve spent the last 2 years figuring Bella out, taking her to some wonderful training classes and working with her on an ongoing basis and she has made wonderful progress and is truly is a special girl. I would argue she is an alpha based on other behaviors I didn’t discuss here because this post was just about prong collars and also based on her being evaluated and worked with by a certified trainer and an animal behaviorist. For example if she is around another dog who aggresses towards a person, she will intervene on behalf of the person. Bella has worked with 2 certified trainers as well for this reason – I’m not the expert on dogs – just my own dogs
It’s not really useful to get into a debate here about whether she’s an alpha or beta since you’ve not spent time with her and have only a snaphsot of information but in any case you are correct that some modifications on the part of the owner can help everyone be less frustrated!
Hi there, I wonder if you could update this. Did Bella continue to make progress on the prong collar? Were you able to wean her off of it, or did she learn to ignore it? What happened next?
(PS: if anyone has used a prong collar on a dog that they have owned for several years I’d like to hear about your experience with it).
I volunteer with my local Humane Society and would love for them to be educated about the prong collar. It’s not for all dogs, as you have stated, but it would be fantastic for a lot of the dogs that end up at a shelter. One of the main reasons a dog is surrendered at a shelter is lack of self control on the part of the dog. This is mostly from a lack of guidance from the previous people that raised the dog. A prong collar is speaking “dog language” to dogs.
I was introduced to them by a dog behaviorist that volunteered for a shelter I used to volunteer for. I was completely floored by the positive response of the dogs that needed the guidance. I had walked most all the dogs there and only a small handful would walk without pulling. When I began using the prong collar, the response was immediate, the dog looked up at me! Instant communication!! I swear by there effectiveness and function. I also understand that dogs have significantly fewer nerve endings around their necks, because that is their teaching area.
I used to be one of those people who saw a prong collar and gave the people dirty looks for hurting their dog, which is the TOTAL OPPOSITE of what is happening for dog. They are learning!
Unfortunately, the Humane Society I am now volunteering (and on the Board) for has no knowledge or experience with prong collars and they are afraid the public will also judge the shelter if we start using them. It’s hard to see the dogs being “choked” by flat collars, when they could be learning from prong collars.